Vox Popoli: Too many lawyers

This week I'm planning to write about various widespread but in my view mistaken beliefs regarding the intensifying crisis in American legal education. I'm going to start with this one: The biggest problem with American legal education is that it fails to produce practice-ready graduates.

This claim has been made by critics of the legal academic establishment for roughly a century now (every 15 years or so some sort of quasi-official report reiterates it). It was a topic of discussion at a law school symposium this weekend on the future of the legal profession, and is apparently a theme of Jim Molitenrno's forthcoming book, A Profession in Crisis, which argues that the fundamental problems with legal education today are in large part products of the fact that more than a century ago "medical schools decided that their mission would be to turn out doctors, while law schools decided that their mission would be to turn out law professors."

Now the claim that law schools remain largely indifferent to the fact that law school teaches law students almost nothing about the practice of law is itself quite true. What isn't the case is that this fact has in itself much to do with the increasingly unacceptable relationship between the cost of a law degree and the economic benefits it confers. Making graduates practice-ready is a fine idea in theory -- why else are law students going to law school anyway? -- but if such reforms do nothing about, or worse yet exacerbate, the crumbling cost-benefit structure of legal education they will do nothing about this fundamental structural problem. ... Any reform that doesn't make legal education less expensive while reducing the number of new attorneys is doing nothing about the real crisis, which is that law school costs far too much relative to the number of jobs available for attorneys.

Of course, unemployment is not the real problem with producing two lawyers for every one legal job. The primary problem is that lawyers are one of the few professions where they can easily create demand for their services at the expense of everyone else in society. It's as if doctors were out there breaking legs and releasing flu viruses in order to ensure a growing demand for their services.

Labels: law, society

65 Comments:

Gen. Kong April 25, 2012 2:14 PM: Perhaps the coming Homeland Security State can hire legions of the leeches and parasites to assist in the stripping of assets of those shipped off the FEMA re-edumacation and medical treatment facilities. The dark greasy smoke which will hand in the air form the rendering facilities will only enhance their lawyerly appearance.
FX Phillips April 25, 2012 2:14 PM: So does this mean that lawyers are going to go back to apprenticing and clerking in law offices like they did before the advent of law school.
FUBAR Nation (Ben) April 25, 2012 2:28 PM: Law school is a complete scam for the vast majority of people, unless you are part of the elite at the ivy leagues.

If the government shrunk, the demand for lawyers would shrink. The lawyers that run the government don't want that, because paper pushing is all they know how to do.

I live in NY and there's very little wealth production going on. It's all paper pushing, financial legerdemain, and suing everyone who you don't like or that has violated some stupid law.

I am studying to be an accountant because there really is nothing else in NY. If anyone has a list of good professions that actually produce wealth instead of destroying it, list them here because spending my life as an accountant is not very exciting.

Oh yeah, Ben Bernanke, f you!
Roundtine April 25, 2012 2:36 PM: The issue is that many students aren't qualified and shouldn't be there. Also, the academy has grown too large as a result of the bubble and many fields spend far too much time and resources navel gazing and inventing new theories. Unqualified students are learning useless theory and racking up life ruining debt in the process. $150,000 in debt for 3 years of feminist/queer theory and the law.
swiftfoxmark2 April 25, 2012 2:37 PM: Let's not forget too that most politicians are lawyers. Except they were really bad at it.
rycamor April 25, 2012 2:38 PM: FUBAR Nation (Ben) April 25, 2012 2:28 PM

I am studying to be an accountant because there really is nothing else in NY. If anyone has a list of good professions that actually produce wealth instead of destroying it, list them here because spending my life as an accountant is not very exciting.

And you remain in NY why, exactly...?
The Aardvark April 25, 2012 2:50 PM: The bagels?
jg April 25, 2012 2:52 PM: Since over 60% of the law students attending law school are women, how are they going to find jobs, if there is a glut of lawyers in the profession?
Daniel April 25, 2012 2:53 PM: Any good accountant will tell you to get the hell out of New York.
swiftfoxmark2 April 25, 2012 2:54 PM: Since over 60% of the law students attending law school are women, how are they going to find jobs, if there is a glut of lawyers in the profession?

To repeat: most politicians are lawyers. As Vox pointed out, lawyers create work for themselves.
James Dixon April 25, 2012 2:56 PM: > If anyone has a list of good professions that actually produce wealth instead of destroying it, list them here because spending my life as an accountant is not very exciting.

Electrician, plumber, auto mechanic, and welder, to name a few.
MendoScot April 25, 2012 3:00 PM: It's as if doctors were out there breaking legs and releasing flu viruses in order to ensure a growing demand for their services.

Hah! You think they don't?
Stilicho April 25, 2012 3:00 PM: The last time I advertized for a summer law clerk (L-2), I received numerous resumes from attorneys who had graduated 2 or 3 years ago. It is not a good time to be looking for a job as an attorney. Supply far exceeds demand. As an employer, that's good for me, but it certainly sucks to be in law school or looking for a legal job right now.

Law school is a complete scam for the vast majority of people, unless you are part of the elite at the ivy leagues.

Partially true. I'll never hire another Ivy League lawyer. Too many bad experiences. Those who find jobs and succeed tend to be those who are near the top of their classes regardless of law school although this usually encompasses a larger percentage of the class at an Ivy League school (say around the top 25%) versus State U. (closer to the top 10%). More of the brightest students tend to go to the Ivy League schools, but other schools get their share due to choices faced by some top students of going into debt for an ivy League J.D. or getting a full scholarship at another school. In the end, all law students read the same books, study the same statutes and cases, take the same bar exams, etc. so much of their eventual success depends on the individual. The Ivy League degree has an advantage in opening the door to certain big firms and in landing the first job, but after that, the field levels quite a bit based upon performance. The Ivy League degree has a continuing advantage if you want to be a professor or work for gov't (i.e. prestige matters more than performance).

I live in NY and there's very little wealth production going on. It's all paper pushing, financial legerdemain, and suing everyone who you don't like or that has violated some stupid law.

All too true. I make my living trying to fight the tide, but it's ultimately a losing battle in many respects.

I am studying to be an accountant because there really is nothing else in NY. If anyone has a list of good professions that actually produce wealth instead of destroying it, list them here because spending my life as an accountant is not very exciting.

I did that before going to law school. I cannot say either career is particularly exciting or rewarding. If I had it to do over again, I would probably have stayed in the Marine Corps.
cherub's revenge April 25, 2012 3:09 PM: I am studying to be an accountant because there really is nothing else in NY. If anyone has a list of good professions that actually produce wealth instead of destroying it, list them here because spending my life as an accountant is not very exciting.

Go into forensic accounting. Even as things head south, people are still willing to pay good money know where the stolen proceeds went.

Think of it not as wealth production, but as wealth salvage.
Orville April 25, 2012 3:27 PM: I know of a successful lawyer in town, whose little brother, also a lawyer, is working as his paralegal instead of handling cases. Don't know if he couldn't hack it, or couldn't make a go of it himself.
ECM April 25, 2012 3:27 PM: It probably wouldn't be much of a stretch to say that not preparing people for the jobs they intend to take upon graduation is a feature, not a bug, of a modern college/universtiy education.
RC April 25, 2012 3:28 PM: "Any reform that doesn't make legal education less expensive while reducing the number of new attorneys is doing nothing about the real crisis, which is that law school costs far too much relative to the number of jobs available for attorneys."

The good professor doesn't even understand the law of supply and demand.
RC April 25, 2012 3:32 PM: "Since over 60% of the law students attending law school are women, how are they going to find jobs, if there is a glut of lawyers in the profession?" - jg

Especially since most of them end up practicing in HR and basic contracts. HR is to JD what dermatology is to MD.
Anonymous April 25, 2012 3:32 PM: Timely blog post – today's the day that US student loan debt hit $1 trillion!
Stilicho April 25, 2012 3:33 PM: The good professor doesn't even understand the law of supply and demand.

True, but this is a classic case of malinvestment created by easy money in the form of student loan debt. We're reaching the point where the borrowers are just starting to realize that debt is never cheap when the ROI is less than the cost of debt service.
Stilicho April 25, 2012 3:36 PM: HR is to JD what dermatology is to MD.

Seinfeld:

"You don't save lives Dr. pimple popper!"

"Oh, skin cancer..."
Goldman'sGym April 25, 2012 3:42 PM: The US has a very significant percentage of the world's lawyers and one of highest per capita, and that Peculiar ME country has the most per capita, if reports are correct. Very telling.
Kriston April 25, 2012 3:46 PM: I know a successful lawyer who closed up his practice and bacame an artist.

Of course, his sister is a successful writer, but I don't think that had anything to do with it.
Azimus April 25, 2012 4:27 PM: As long as blatant gotchya lines go unchallenged, like "96% of gradutes employed within 6 months of earning their degrees" - when 66% of that 96% aren't working in their degree field, much less need the degree - the drones are going to keep lining up and selling their future for a few years of sleeping in, partying and fooling around.

The cheapest way to remedy this would be to use our surplus of lawyers to organize class action suits against colleges/universities and sue for the balance of the student loan debt - in this way, we employ the lawyers, eliminate student loan debt, put unbelievable pressure on colleges to turn out graduates that are actually worth something, and decrease college capacity to something like 25-30% of high school graduates. FOUR BIRDS, ONE STONE.
cheddarman April 25, 2012 4:29 PM: The Chinese leadership are schooled mostly in engineering, so they want to build stuff...

Our leaders are, for the most part, trained as lawyers so they want to redistribute wealth...

gee, I wonder which nation is in the best position to win the future?
rycamor April 25, 2012 4:36 PM: FUBAR,

Among other jobs that I think might go well in 21st-Century America, I would suggest learning how to grow organic vegetables covertly and sell them locally in the underground market. As the industrial produce system of this country gets more and more regulated, medicated, and technologized, the quality and nutritional value of produce is getting worse all the time. When was the last time you had a tasty tomato from a supermaket? Grow your own and be amazed at the difference. You would be surprised at what people are willing to pay for the real deal. Ditto with fresh pastured eggs. My cousin who lives in NYC visited our country place in Florida and said the eggs from my chickens would probably fetch a dollar apiece in NYC.

Of course, in order to do such a thing you need to learn all about how to circumvent the various laws regarding the selling of produce. Among other things, you might want to officially label everything as "rabbit feed" or something like that.
Dissident April 25, 2012 4:53 PM: (Rolls eyes) Politicians /= Lawyers
It's as if [politicians] were out there breaking legs and releasing flu viruses in order to ensure a growing demand for [doctors'] services.
MendoScot April 25, 2012 5:08 PM: HR is to JD what dermatology is to MD.

A neurosurgeon once explained this to me. "If it's wet, make it dry. If it's dry, make it wet. You are now a dermatologist."
TLM April 25, 2012 5:11 PM: My first business venture I used lawyers for every task that involved any type of official filing, paperwork, etc. What a waste of money that was. I now do it myself and it's simple, especially with the free resources one can find on-line. They want you to believe that you need them for these things but it's actually thr reverse. And the lawyers, defense & prosecution, I witnessed in court during my only stint at jury duty were incompetent, inarticulate, and all women. Go figure.
James Dixon April 25, 2012 5:13 PM: > (Rolls eyes) Politicians /= Lawyers

Technically correct, but...

Would you care to speculate as to what percentage of the currently elected US politicians are lawyers?

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_percentage_of_US_congress_members_are_lawyers

"Out of a total of 435 U.S. Representatives and 100 Senators (535 total in Congress), lawyers comprise the biggest voting block of one type, making up 43% of Congress. Sixty percent of the U.S. Senate is lawyers ... 37.2% of the House of Representatives are lawyers."

When 60% of the Senate list their profession as lawyer, the gloss is quite understandable.
DrTorch April 25, 2012 5:15 PM: US graduates about 44K JDs per year, and about 16,500 MDs.

There are problems right there.

And yeah, I like this, "The primary problem is that lawyers are one of the few professions where they can easily create demand for their services at the expense of everyone else in society."
Keb April 25, 2012 5:28 PM: My father always said that lawyers try to figure out how to slice the pie. Engineers try to figure out how to make more pie. (However, given his presence in the kitchen, I figured it was the engineers' wives and daughters making the pies.)
FUBAR Nation (Ben) April 25, 2012 5:36 PM: I'm in NY because that's where I grew up (Rockland County) and that's where my family is. Do you think it's worth it to leave family behind and go out on my own, because I'm starting to think I should.

Forensic accounting is the field I want to go into for the exact reason you spelled out. At least I would be working to salvage wealth instead of milking clients to death for filing fees and visits to court to deal with sociopath judges. the problem with accounting is that I fear it's a bubble. Everyone that is around my age is going into accounting.

If accounting doesn't work out, I'll probably end up working on a farm or try one of the trades you listed.
PC Geek April 25, 2012 5:38 PM: @Azimus:

The cheapest way to remedy this would be to use our surplus of lawyers to organize class action suits against colleges/universities and sue for the balance of the student loan debt - in this way, we employ the lawyers, eliminate student loan debt, put unbelievable pressure on colleges to turn out graduates that are actually worth something, and decrease college capacity to something like 25-30% of high school graduates. FOUR BIRDS, ONE STONE.

Absolutely epic! Well done!

Any lawyers around here looking for work and want to get the party started? :-)
PC Geek April 25, 2012 5:40 PM: @FUBAR Nation (Ben)

Just curious (I know some accountants) - do you know if a masters in accounting a necessity of just a 'nice to have for advancement' sorta thing?
WaterBoy April 25, 2012 5:48 PM: DrTorch: US graduates about 44K JDs per year, and about 16,500 MDs.

There are problems right there.

Not too difficult to see that, since each of the doctors will need a lawyer to handle their frivolous malpractice suits.

And the rest of them are on the other side of those suits.
Azimus April 25, 2012 6:12 PM: DrTorch April 25, 2012 5:15 PM US graduates about 44K JDs per year, and about 16,500 MDs.

There are problems right there.

I used a lawyer for the first time in my life this year. For $500 he helped my church put together the contractual language to purchase a new building. This probably represented 4hrs of work on his time. So that's 4hrs of work in 33yrs for me.

Let's say I'm below average, and the average person needs a lawyer for 2hrs per year of their life (160hrs total lifetime demand). So everytime the population grows by 1, the market for lawyer time grows by 2hrs. From 2000 to 2010 the US population grew by about 2.7 million people per year. That would grow the market for lawyers by 5.4 million hours per year. I'll make the assumption that new lawyers can only fill new demand. So, if we're pouring out 44,000 shiny new lawyers per year, that's an average of about 122hrs per new lawyer, or enough work to employ 2700 of those lawyers.

There's obviously more work for them than that as they take over for retiring lawyers but still...
Boogeyman April 25, 2012 7:01 PM: Electrician, plumber, auto mechanic, and welder, to name a few.

I'd also add central heat & air, and perhaps the guy that appraises the value of homes. When times are good people buy houses. When times are bad they sell. Either way the property has to be appraised and it doesn't take a lot of physical labor.

I've talked to a few handy men. Seems if you just know a little of the above and are willing to work you can make an ok living.
Luke April 25, 2012 7:02 PM: The primary problem is that lawyers are one of the few professions where they can easily create demand for their services at the expense of everyone else in society.

"A town too small to support one lawyer can easily support two."
-Lyndon Baines Johnson (MHBIH)
FUBAR Nation (Ben) April 25, 2012 7:14 PM: @PC Geek

I'm getting my masters in accounting right now, which is a 30 credit degree. You don't need if you have 150 credit hours.

What about sales? When I browse online job sites I see tons of postings for sales jobs. Seems like they are commission only jobs though.
Anyone here ever do sales?
rycamor April 25, 2012 7:38 PM: FUBAR Nation (Ben) April 25, 2012 7:14 PM

What about sales? When I browse online job sites I see tons of postings for sales jobs. Seems like they are commission only jobs though.
Anyone here ever do sales?

Yes, a few times.

Straight-commission sales jobs are the only kind worth anything, but you have to know your product and be convinced it is either a) useful and affordable or b) useless but so enjoyable people don't care if they can't afford it. If b, you have to be willing to sell your soul just a little bit.

Secondly, you have to make yourself enjoy dealing with people, even if you don't. Dale Carnegie's classic "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is probably the best sales manual ever.

I strongly recommend every young man (as I sense you are, right?) spend at least some time in a sales job. It is a great character builder--almost as important as spending time in manual labor. Once you learn how to do sales the right way (I.E., you can promise a prospect that they will enjoy the experience and you will respect their decision no matter what), then you realize that everything in life involves some form of selling. Especially when you decide to start your own business.

Oh, and the other great thing about a straight-commission sales job: there is no limit to your potential income. The only thing to watch out for is those incompetently-run companies where management gets scared when their top salesman is making too much money, so they move to reduce commission. NEVER knowingly work for such a company, and always make sure your contract protects you from such idiocy. (Generally, if you are the top seller and they try to cut your commission, they will always cave if you walk. Hold the line.)
dh April 25, 2012 7:52 PM: > he only thing to watch out for is those incompetently-run companies where management gets scared when
> their top salesman is making too much money, so they move to reduce commission. NEVER knowingly work
> for such a company, and always make sure your contract protects you from such idiocy.

Contact?

What idiocy is this. Less than 1% of working Americans are protected by an employment contract.
rycamor April 25, 2012 8:16 PM: dh, even a one-page agreement counts as contractual if the language is clear and it is signed by both parties. Also, as I mentioned, even if you don't have a contract, if you are a high seller and they go to reduce your commission, WALK. If they don't cave, they're too stupid to make money anyway.

I mean, it's another thing if a company is going through hard times and tries to make a deal with all salesforce to reduce commission, but if they are in the habit of punishing success, you don't want to be there anyway. In fact, that's a great question for any prospective sales person to ask. "Let me get this straight: I make 15% per sale, right? So if I sell $100,000 worth of product, I make $15,000? And just for kicks, let's say I move $2 million worth of product. Is that still 15%? So I make $300,000? OK, just wanted to be sure. Can I hold you to that? Can I get that in writing? I want to hang it in front of my desk for inspiration."

In fact, there are some companies who will actually provide a sliding UP scale for high performers. You can really hit the jackpot if you know how to sell.
Anonymous April 25, 2012 9:28 PM: [quote]The Chinese leadership are schooled mostly in engineering, so they want to build stuff...

Our leaders are, for the most part, trained as lawyers so they want to redistribute wealth...

gee, I wonder which nation is in the best position to win the future?[/quote]

FTW
Doom April 25, 2012 9:56 PM: My guess is there are too many of almost every profession available through a college "education". While the others can find jobs which are commensurate with their expense... wait, not even that is true. Okay, I'll stick with my first sentence and call it even, you can keep the hope (and change).

My guess is, becoming a plumber, electrician, or woodworker (of particular, functional, sorts) would pay a heck of a lot more in real returns than almost anything a college education can present. My guess is true talent only goes to school to hook up with real money or other resources.
Pied Piper April 25, 2012 10:07 PM: No doubt the legal field has become saturated. Hmm, what other fields to consider? Anyone ever done network security? That's supposed to be a hot field in IT, but I don't know how vulnerable it is to outsourcing.
Anonymous April 25, 2012 10:09 PM: Hey, Fubar,

Accounting and Finance undergrad at KU myself. My understanding, based on all of the people I've talked to is that while accounting isn't particularly exciting, the pay and employment prospects are pretty good, particularly if you manage to go Big Four right out the gate. The Big Four people mostly leave after three or four years to go to smaller firms and industry (all of those companies look good on a resume), where the work/life balance is a bit better and usually the pay as well. If you're willing to slog through a few more years and make partner, though, you'll make huge money - but only a small percent of people coming in will ever do that.

Ultimately, though, the most important thing if you're a forward-thinking individual that doesn't want to be an entrepreneur is to study something with a clear career path that has decent employment prospects. Engineering, accounting, pharmacy, stuff like that. The work may not be exciting or spiritually uplifting, but it is work. Hell, you may spend most of your day wanting to just bang your head on your desk, but being stably employed and bored/frustrated sounds a hell of a lot better to me than being marginally employed or unemployed and constantly worried sick about money. Long-term uncertainty-fueled stress does awful things to me, personally, and I'll take a 'meh' certainty over a 'you'll either do great or be totally f*cked' uncertainty any day.

I'm trying to go to UT myself for their MPA since I want to end up in Houston or Dallas, but I haven't taken the GMAT yet so I have no clue how that'll work out. Where are you at and how is it?

-CA
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E. PERLINE April 25, 2012 10:11 PM: I agree that sales are a misunderstood profession. The portrait of a salesman as a good old boy is outdated. Today's salesman is a PROBLEM-SOLVER for those who want to produce something. This requires him to know the latest technology in a field and to be articulate when explaining it to clients.

Don't knock this ability clarify. It's under-appreciated. But those of you who are already good writers can go far with it. All you have to do is learn a business as a trainee. (It doesn't matter what you make at the beginning.)But work in a highly productive business, not a craft. You'll want them to be able to keep up with you.
FUBAR Nation (Ben) April 25, 2012 10:31 PM: Anonymous, I'm getting a masters in accounting. The GMAT is the biggest bs test ever given. It's basically rehashed high school math and english questions. I wonder who's getting rich off of that racket.
Luke April 25, 2012 10:32 PM: Azimus said:

"As long as blatant gotchya lines go unchallenged, like "96% of gradutes employed within 6 months of earning their degrees" - when 66% of that 96% aren't working in their degree field, much less need the degree - the drones are going to keep lining up and selling their future for a few years of sleeping in, partying and fooling around.

The cheapest way to remedy this would be to use our surplus of lawyers to organize class action suits against colleges/universities and sue for the balance of the student loan debt - in this way, we employ the lawyers, eliminate student loan debt, put unbelievable pressure on colleges to turn out graduates that are actually worth something, and decrease college capacity to something like 25-30% of high school graduates. FOUR BIRDS, ONE STONE."

Not bad, but I have what I believe is a more elegant idea, and one applicable to ALL colleges, professional schools, even trade schools. Simply have the schools (better the specific departments) be the only source of school loans. If their graduates never earn enough to pay back the loans (if they even graduate), the useless school/department goes under -- or goes to tuition prepaid-in-full only. Win-win.
Anonymous April 25, 2012 10:37 PM: Agreed, Doom.

If you're not going to college to study something that will lead to real job prospects, you should not go. It is too expensive and the stakes are too damn high to do anything else. Going tens of thousands of dollars into debt for the sake of a hobby (philosophy, poli sci, linguistics) is absolute stupidity. It would be one thing if we were in Europe and the government took care of our education, because then you would just be losing four years of employment, but when the sheer expense and the cost of debt are worked in, you're severely impairing your future lifestyle.

I mean, really. Trading a decent post-college life with stable employment, decent income, less stress, and a greater probability of being able to get married, have kids, own a home, etc. for four easier years in college? What the hell sense does that possibly make? Plenty of people who would think it's stupid to trade $40 for $4 think the trade makes sense if you're trading years instead of dollars.

Also, if you want to cut down on the number of law students, the first thing we all need to do is figure out what to do with the liberal arts majors. THE biggest source of law students is liberal arts students that look around in their senior year and think "Oh, crap, nobody will hire me to do anything but wait tables and I'm not academically prepared to pursue a graduate degree in anything with real intellectual rigor like chemistry, physics, engineering, or medicine, so I guess I'll go to law school!" Law school looks like the ultimate life preserver to somebody who just wasted the last four years of their life, and only when they're in their 2nd or 3rd year do they come to notice its much closer resemblance to a noose.

-CA
taz April 25, 2012 10:44 PM: Too many lawyers-including on the web!
Anonymous April 25, 2012 10:46 PM: Luke,

I've had a similar idea: force the individual departments to cosign on the loans of their students. It does the following:

1) Makes the departments work harder at helping their students find decent work.
2) Makes the departments modernize their curriculum so it's as relevant to the needs of employers as possible.
3) Heavily punishes the departments whose students can't make any money.
4) Frees the students from a lifetime of debt slavery. Don't get me wrong, they were idiots and picked a dumb major, but they were lied to their entire lives about the way the real world works by everybody from their parents to their guidance counselors to the departments themselves. But somebody had a financial incentive to trick them into debt slavery, so that entity is the most worthy of punishment.
5) Returns the liberal arts to something that rich people do as hobbies, which is how they should have been perceived in the first place.
III April 26, 2012 12:44 AM: If accounting doesn't work out, I'll probably end up working on a farm or try one of the trades you listed.

From an auto-tech. Don't become a mechanic.

Electrician. Industrial electrician.

I don't know how it is everywhere else, but in my neck of the woods it is pretty bleak. I've been laid off 2 jobs in 16 months. I don't know why the second guy even hired me as business was just cold dead. I just recently did some update classes at the college for my license, and talking to the head auto instructor there, his students are having a heck of a time finding a job, including established mechanics as myself.

Anyhow, you want a job that pays hourly, not flag time or commission. You can make good money when times are good and people have the money to get their cars fixed. But when things slow down, you might be lucky if your employer will guarantee you 400-500 bucks a week when it gets real slow. Then your employer gets tired of paying 400-500 a week for mostly doing nothing.
Doom April 26, 2012 1:02 AM: Luke,

Not bad, but I have what I believe is a more elegant idea, and one applicable to ALL colleges, professional schools, even trade schools. Simply have the schools (better the specific departments) be the only source of school loans. If their graduates never earn enough to pay back the loans (if they even graduate), the useless school/department goes under -- or goes to tuition prepaid-in-full only. Win-win.

Excellent. You have learned the force well.

Oh, and. I am your father. I even know what you are getting me for Christmas. I felt your presents.

Don't hate me. I just... had to do that.
FrankNorman April 26, 2012 6:01 AM: jg April 25, 2012 2:52 PM

Since over 60% of the law students attending law school are women, how are they going to find jobs, if there is a glut of lawyers in the profession?

I see what you did, there.
RedJack April 26, 2012 8:25 AM: rycamor

Selling drugs is an easier and less dangerous way to make money. Sell non regulated food can get you killed by the Fedgov. Ask anyone who wants to buy or sell non pastuerized milk.
rycamor April 26, 2012 10:09 AM: RedJack,

Why do you think I'm trying to get as many people as possible to do it? Spread the risk.

Kidding aside, I haven't heard of any actual FedGov shootings in that regard, although they have entered guns-drawn to raid a few raw-milk stores and farms. Fact is, this issue is not going to go away, especially as more and more people these days are starting backyard farms and gardens, and with the recent popularity of the Paleo diet and movies like Food, Inc. If the Feds really think they can put a lid on the food supply when they have failed miserably at containing the drug traffickers, they are seriously deluded.
RobertT April 26, 2012 12:08 PM: The educator you quoted is apparently oblivious to the growing consensus among CEO's that a severe competitive disadvantage facing U.S. businesses over the next several decades is the mismatch between the requirement for talent and the talent available. Virtually every survey I have looked at identifies the talent crunch as the major issue facing businesses in the U.S. The PWC survey and the blog post by their senior partner in HBR good examples, but IBM, the Conference Board and others agree in one way or another. The blog post carries the title "If unemployment is so high, why is hiring so hard?"

One area in particular I have noticed comments about the lack of talent is whenever the topic of analytics comes up. It seems even multinationals can't find the superior talent to entrust a company's analytical analysis.

Considering we spend more money on our education system and wrap more students in more lifelong debt than any other country attempting to educate them, something must be wrong with our education system. Educators like the guy quoted here don't help things by burying their heads in the sand.
James Dixon April 26, 2012 1:16 PM: > The blog post carries the title "If unemployment is so high, why is hiring so hard?"

Because companies are unwilling to train people.
Luke April 26, 2012 1:39 PM: I know that WRT IT, that those in charge of hiring and training in U.S. companies routinely have competence down around that of those in charge of ethics at Enron/MF Global. Look up Norman Matloff's writings on this, e.g., "Debunking the Desperate Software Labor Shortage". That's originally testimony he presented to a U.S. Congressional subcommittee. He's a C.S. prof at U.C. Davis, and his wife is a software engineer. I particularly find telling in his writings that if a C.S. major doesn't get an internship while still in school, odds are against them ever working as a programmer employee. (The one about the E.E. Ph.D. who was told by Intel (!) that that was above the level they ever hire people was memorable as well.)

In my own field, even people with a B.S. often miss out on numerous critical basics (that I picked up in undergrad days) that have to be taught them or they can't do the job.
Dissident April 26, 2012 2:25 PM: Most lawyers are not politicians. James Dixon, would you care to speculate on the % of lawyers that are politicians?
Thiruppathy Raja April 27, 2012 12:46 AM: Hey, nice site you have here! Keep up the excellent work!

Agents and Lawyers
James Dixon April 27, 2012 8:39 AM: > Most lawyers are not politicians.

I never said they were.

> ...would you care to speculate on the % of lawyers that are politicians?

Why would I? I merely noted the facts concerning your claim.